Question
Kinky people: Does one of these situations strike you as more creepy than the other? Please explain your answer.
Two non-kinky people – let’s call them Casey and Avery - have several friends in common and think one another are cute, so when Avery asks Casey out “for coffee,” Casey accepts. They really hit it off, hang out awhile after coffee has been had, and go for a little walk.
A then asks C to “come over,” and the two of them end up going hot and heavy on Avery’s couch. Soon, various appendages are inserted into various orifices. Safer sex practices are followed. Each tells the other they’ve had a good time. No verbal consent is ever obtained for any sexual activity.
Two kinky people – let’s call them LeatherPony77 and GreySadist – are chatting and flirting at a private play party. There’s a good vibe and they decide to play. A very short negotiation establishes that both enjoy caning, so GreySadist is going to cane LeatherPony77; LeatherPony77’s safeword is “Ernest Hemingway”; and if blood is drawn the scene needs to end.
Both become sexually aroused while playing. After a little while, GS asks LP if it’s OK to kiss, and LP agrees. Then after awhile longer, LP asks GS to insert an appendage or two into one of their orifices, and GS complies. Safer sex practices are followed. When the scene ends, each tells the other they’ve had a good time. Verbal consent **is** explicitly obtained for all activities, although some consent isn’t obtained until after they have begun playing.
This is a serious question; I’m interested in hearing all perspectives on this. I’m trying to figure out whether and/or why Sub Space is considered a more vulnerable or judgment-impairing state of being than sexual arousal. I know people who feel that Sub Space can or does impair one's judgment, but I've never heard those same people say how they feel what sexual arousal does to one's judgment. Full disclosure: In my own experience, I don't find that one leaves me more or less capable of making decisions.
Neither of those strike me as creepy at all. In one case, it seems they had a mutual agreement, non verbal. In the other, there was talking and negotiation, and then further talking during the scene.
ReplyDeleteThe one I might have a problem with, is if during prior talking/negotiation one had said "Absolutely no penetration" and then during the scene/make out session this changed. Whoever changed it, I think that is asking for trouble. I can understand getting aroused and wanting to do more. I can't understand not sticking to previous limits without a total break in the action for discussion with cooler heads (whether it is S/M or just heavy petting vanilla style).
Personally, I have been in subspace so deep I could not talk. I barely felt pain. Everything was all floaty and I probably would have agreed to anything if asked. A responsible top would stick to my limits and not try to change things like that mid-scene. All of them have, too. I don't place limits on my Master, but he does set them for me with other people.
I'm not a sub. My opinions are from the perspective of interacting with subs in subspace. It's not the same for everyone. I understand that.
ReplyDeleteHowever, for some people I've known, subspace is like the above commenter stated - unable to speak or feel pain, or say no to anything. For my primary partner, this is by all appearances a state of pure bliss and transcendence. I actually think one of the wonders of subspace is the freedom from having to make decisions at all.
I think your story changes somewhat if Avery is heavily intoxicated, which is more analogous to the state some subs are in. If Avery is unable to speak or nearly unable to refuse any suggestion, that is a seriously creepy scenario.
I don't think negotiating everything beforehand is particularly fun. I think it's the responsible thing to do when playing people you have not established a high level of trust with. Certain combinations of people can really get into trouble with this, and that is why people hold it up as the standard. If, on the other hand, you're playing with someone you trust completely, I agree it's wonderful just to do whatever feels right with confidence that you'll both agree on that afterward.
I will add one more thing. Consent doesn't always happen at the moment an action is taken. For our bottom in subspace who has taken part of something that was not negotiated beforehand, whatever her state of mind or perception of consent is at the time the activities happen, there comes a time when the sub is processing what happened and still has the ability to decide whether there is consent.
ReplyDeleteThis is true even in the vanilla context. Perhaps Casey consented at the time the intercourse happened, but what if it is later made clear that Avery was aware of having a serious STI at the time and didn't disclose that fact until well after?